A Question for iPod Users
I ask this question to all of my iPod using friends, and I ask it with great sincerity, please humor me and let me know...
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Let me tell you why I'm asking this. I use a Zune for my music and video habit, and I do mean "habit". I download approximately 30 albums a month,and many more videos than that. I love music, I love it when I'm driving, when I'm walking, when I'm at the gym. I wish I could sing worth a lick, but I can't. I still love music.
The radio is pretty much dead to me, I want to listen to what I like, when I want to. So do you, that is why you have an iPod. But...is there a point where you are just being stubborn because the Zune isn't "cool'? My house has three Zunes, used by various members of my family. We use Zune Marketplace (the software equvilient to iTunes) to download our music and video. The terms of service state that up to three devices can download music on one account. One account costs $15/month and I get unlimited download. Yes, they are DRM protected and if I quit paying my $15/month they all go away, BUT...why would I stop paying? It's only $15 per month. So let me do the math for you.
Last month, between the three Zunes, we downloaded right around 600 different songs. Totally legal, totally legit. Total cost to me? $15. If I were to do that with iTunes it would cost me $594. Even if I have a slow month and only download 100 measly songs, it costs me $15 and it would cost an iTunes user $99. Let's take the high and low of these two extremes and compare them.
Are you being stubborn, or are you just really bad at math?[caption id="attachment_938" align="alignright" width="300" caption="Zune Marketplace allows you to download just about anything you want for one flat monthly fee"]
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Let me tell you why I'm asking this. I use a Zune for my music and video habit, and I do mean "habit". I download approximately 30 albums a month,and many more videos than that. I love music, I love it when I'm driving, when I'm walking, when I'm at the gym. I wish I could sing worth a lick, but I can't. I still love music.
The radio is pretty much dead to me, I want to listen to what I like, when I want to. So do you, that is why you have an iPod. But...is there a point where you are just being stubborn because the Zune isn't "cool'? My house has three Zunes, used by various members of my family. We use Zune Marketplace (the software equvilient to iTunes) to download our music and video. The terms of service state that up to three devices can download music on one account. One account costs $15/month and I get unlimited download. Yes, they are DRM protected and if I quit paying my $15/month they all go away, BUT...why would I stop paying? It's only $15 per month. So let me do the math for you.
Last month, between the three Zunes, we downloaded right around 600 different songs. Totally legal, totally legit. Total cost to me? $15. If I were to do that with iTunes it would cost me $594. Even if I have a slow month and only download 100 measly songs, it costs me $15 and it would cost an iTunes user $99. Let's take the high and low of these two extremes and compare them.
iTunes user (low downloads) $1,188 per year Zune user (low downloads) $180 per year iTunes user (high downloads) $7,128 per year Zune user (high downloads) $180 per yearThere is some content in Zune Marketplace that you can pay extra for, like the videos, and I have done that a bit. Apple may get into this type of market, but for right now it's just a rumor. If they do, this conversation is moot. But if they don't, let me repeat the question
Are you just being stubborn, or are you really bad at math?UPDATE: April 7, 2009 Apple has just increased the cost of music in their library by 30%, bringing songs to a total of $1.29. The math above is now out of date and is more in favor of Zune than ever!
If you’re asking it like that, you obviously already assume I’m stupid. Probably not the best way to start an adult conversation, but let’s look past that for now.
I’ve found that subscription services don’t meet my need. I like to download one album or two a month and consume them. Having all you can eat (having *too* many choices) actually does not work for me — it’s a bit too ADD, actually. How can you really enjoy a record if you’ve just downloaded 20? Which one do you spend the most time with? You better hurry up, cos in order to stay on top of your math, you need to get through those records before it becomes next month.
On top of this, I have a TON of purchased music from iTunes. What will I do with it all?
In addition, I’ve already invested in: iTunes purchased music, adapters, in-car setup, chargers, cases, etc etc etc. I should just toss all of this? Then I’d be REALLY bad at math.
But, but, the iPod is made by Apple and thus it _must_ be cool. I don’t want to be un-cool. :-)
Seriously, though, MS is behind somewhat on player design – Apple just beat them out in getting to market and now has a lead. I don’t think it’s a huge lead, but it’s still slightly there.
For me, I bought a Zune 30. It was on sale and it’s hard to beat paying < $100 for a 30GB media player. I definitely can’t justify the inflated cost of an iPod. There are just better alternatives out there. I agree that MS has a good thing going with the subscription service, though I haven’t used it yet myself. We aren’t huge media consumers and I tend towards Radio Dramas and some basic podcasting at the moment. I listen to some music, but not an awful lot.
I would like to see the subscription model be a little more common, but I think that MS has a great thing going with that right now. If you want to explore something else, you can without paying (extra) for it. If you want to just keep what you have, so be it. I plan to give the subscription a try at some point, but it’s not a priority right now.
As for the Zune, the 2.5 software makes a huge difference. It’s just about what the 2.0 software should have been. Of course, it’s from MS and it’s not an iPod so it gets bashed from all sides. :-)
And Jon, I think that for your profile it makes sense to stick with the iPod, but Matt does have a good point that if you really want to mess around with different types of music, the Zune subscription makes good sense. Cost is comparable for both, so I think it’s a valid item to consider if looking at a new player.
(And yes, I do think that a lot of people just jumped on the iPod bandwagon because it was cool. It definitely was NOT the best player when it was released and I’d argue that neither the Zune nor iPod are the best, but they do work for their purposes and Apple has slick marketing.)
But…but…
With iTunes, I’m not locked into sticking with their service. As soon as I’m done with Zune, I’m under the impression that all of those downloads self-destruct, a la Get Smart. Also…and I don’t have the numbers to back this one up…I’m under the impression that the Zune library isn’t as big as iTunes.
BTW…what did you pay for your Zune? My 2 y/o 512MB Shuffle works just great. It’s lasted longer than any of my kids’ more expensive models. Theirs have either been stolen or been mubarred in some way.
I have a 4 year old iPod mini. I use it primarily while at the gym – I listen to the radio in the car and rarely listen to music anywhere other than those two places. I download 10 sounds a month max. So for me, because I already have the device and don’t download much music (I guess an “extremely low download” user on your chart), it just doesn’t make financial sense for me to buy a Zune.
oops… 10 sounds = 10 songs.
Since when is owning an IPOD all about downloading music? I might be the exception rather than the norm, but I maybe download like 3 songs a month…and I don’t mind spending $3.
IPODs ROCK!
Agreed – Matt has a good point…for certain people. But to assume that all iPod users can’t do math? Pfft.
A better article would have included the thought that maybe, just maybe…there are other people that disagree with you…a different style user with different needs — not a trend-following idiot.
@jon…if you only consume one or two a month, sounds like iTunes is a great choice. I download a bunch, listen through, and discard the ones I don’t care for, then really “consume” what is left. And no I don’t think you are stupid, but I don’t think a lot of iPod users are stubborn. I think this because they have actually told me that.
@peter…yes, version 2.5 made all the difference. So much better!
@rick…I recently got a sick deal on a Zune. $140 for an 80GB. Hard to beat that.
@Kelly…the iPod minis ARE sweet. I’ve considered getting one. I really have!
@Kurt…ummmm. I don’t even know where to start with you on this one. That’s like asking “since when is owning a car all about driving?” I’ll let others chime in on that.
I am a careful buyer and my ipod contains more CDs than downloads.
Plus, I have to say my iPod Touch is just sexy.
I think there are a LOT more people that download 3 songs a month like Kurt than download 600 like Matt. Personally I have a Sansa and have my cd collection on it…
matt – good math, I went Iphone, there was no Zune phone and face it Apple has the market.
What will you do when you upgrade to a Iphone yourself?
@mike v…When I upgrade my PHONE to an iPHONE what will I do? I will use my iPHONE as a telephone and my Zune as my music player :)
@chris c…Could it be they only download 3 songs a month because they have to pay for every song? Hrm?
@rich…a sexy man like you needs…no, DESERVES a sexy iPod touch!
So can you not burn CD”s with the Zune music?
Sounds like the Zune interface is similar to iTunes so you can?
At this point, I’ve got an iPhone, I wont be dropping a couple hundred on a Zune, but sound like it’s a good deal in the long run.
Matt, I have an Ipod but do not use any downloading service, i actually go out and buy the album hard copy. and use my ipod to consolodate all of it. I love supporting unknown talent and upstart bands, and im pretty sure that actually buying the cd puts more money in the bands pocket, which they hopefully use in crankin out more tunes.
Intelligent debate on here. Makes a nice refreshing change from fanboy-bashing. Subscribed.
By the way, I surfed on in here from Twitter via Summize (http://summize.com/search?q=zune)
-Jamie
I’ve been using an mp3 player for about 10 years. Several years ago I switched to an ipod nano because it was convenient, cheap and what the standard was at work. The Zune didn’t exist when I bought my nano. Michael are you listening?)i probably should be using a Mac for my job but it’s not the standard in our shop. I digress…
I primarily use my nano for podcasts. I listen to about 10/week and would listen to more if i didn’t have teenage girls who control the radio during the commute.
I also use it for playlists for weekend service rehearsal/prep and for matching my mood/preference at any given time. I’m old enough to know what a luxury this is… and I’m also a huge compilation kinda girl.
I’m also old enough to remember paying $17 because I really loved one song on an album. I don’t mind paying $.99 for one now, in fact it makes me feel good that I’m somehow supporting the artist, their record label and even Apple who made my life easy.
I haven’t been motivated by MS to look at the Zune because my nano is doing what i paid for and is still working.
stubborn- yes
bad at math- no
lover of convenience- yes
new music hound- no
hate recurring charges- yes
Mr. Singley….
I hear you loud & clear in your argument here. Based on your assumptions, it makes total sense to go with the Zune & subscription model.
However, one key reason I have yet to get too jazzed about the Zune, is technological obsolescence. The possibility that the platform will die. Leaving the model unsupported. Will the Zune make it? Is MS committed to the platform and medium like Apple is? Are they committed to it like they have been with the Xbox? Is the Zune/store part of a corporate “pissing-contest”, meant to distract the guys in Cupertino? Does it matter? Does the new Napster model and your eclectic mix of MP3 producers signify that there will always be another option outside of what Furher Jobs offers us? How do other uses/technologies impact the buying decision for that matter? Love the iPhone? Love Mac and Apple software? I used to love Dell in the early 2000′s too; however, my MP3 player and Dell laptop were never more than pieces of disconnected commodities. And I think Dell’s consumer and enterprise market share of the last 5 years reflects that. However…I digress…
I myself actually never owned an iPod until I bought the iTouch last year. I had an early Dell Jukebox back in 2004. The hard-drive broke after a few months and I never replaced it.
What was I waiting for?
Something that met my needs: Flash vs hard drive, so I wouldn’t have another death on a treadmill…and actually was waiting for Apple to migrate to subscription-based. I now also have the iPod shuffle which is probably all I ever needed musically. Which leads me into a point I’ll save for later about the music/economic assumption?
So, they haven’t moved to subscription yet, but I know Fred Wilson & all of his teenagers use Rhapsody and iPods…so is there a way? I’m just not familiar enough with the various music offerings. I have my proverbial eye on the consumer web, but perhaps not my finger on the pulse of it. I don’t know Pandora, Last.fm, Rhapsody and others well enough to make bold declarations about where consumer music is going. My personal take is that someone—perhaps a Rupert Murdoch driven Myspace—will step in on the side of the consumer in the DRM free arena, and change up the model drastically. Maybe more likely, Steve Jobs will flip the industry again on its head and change the model.
So in the meantime, I guess if I had the right music motivation, I might care. But the economic assumptions that you make, are not the same that I make. I’ve never bought a song on iTunes, my library is relatively old (in spite of my best efforts to have my more musically inclined friends introduce me to new music, over the last few years in Los Angeles.). There are times when I find the occasional band I just fall in love with. And I will overkill their music…but for the most part, radio is dead to me too. Unless you’re talking about talk radio, and that my friend is where the economic model you presented completely breaks down with my motivations. I ALWAYS have my radio on in the car. Most likely it will be on AUX, with an old sermon, a new sermon, an old Jim Rome podcast, or some tech podcast from Stanford, ringing through the 4Runner’s six speaker system. I would go insane if didn’t have the iTunes library of FREE podcasts I have enjoyed so thoroughly over the course of the 59,000 miles I’ve driven. FREE my friend. A wealth of knowledge, always at my fingertips, in the convenience of the undeniable mega-store of podcasts and music. Maybe ZUNE offers the same…I really have no idea, but I also do not have the confidence that the Zune marketplace will always be there. I know iTunes will. Even if it has to reinvent itself.
And oh yeah, Apple products are freaking sexy! :)
jls
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cool bro!
jls
uninformed about the cost i guess. and stubborn.
I’m bad at math Matt. I love APPLE….don’t like Microsoft products…at least most of them :-)
I don’t download that much music either. Maybe a song a month, if that.
But I see your point…
I’m bad at math Matt. I love APPLE….don’t like Microsoft products…at least most of them :-)
I don’t download that much music either. Maybe a song a month, if that.
But I see your point…
I’m bad at math Matt. I love APPLE….don’t like Microsoft products…at least most of them :-)
I don’t download that much music either. Maybe a song a month, if that.
But I see your point…
Wow…a lot of passion in these comments. Thought I would chime in ;)
Yes, I have a Zune and yes I love it. With that said, one of the things I’m dealing with right now is maintaining a balanced approach to IT and decision making. How does this affect my consumer decisions? At first I didn’t think it would but it totally does.
Anyone of course can do the math and figure out the difference. Some people download more than enough albums to justify the subscription based model. Do you know that you don’t have to do that though with the Zune Marketplace? You can still purchase them separately. Also, when you do, it’s basically replicating the iTunes model…you keep it from then on out.
Now Jared does bring up a very good point. Is MS willing to stick it out? Many times they are willing to drop a brand or technology at the cost of the consumer. Take MSN Music for instance. That USED to be their music store…not anymore and they dropped the support for it so many people who purchased music from it are at a loss. The real question I think is…can they afford to do it again?
Let’s take a look at some of the directions that they’re heading into. Not only do they have agreements with studios for video content, but word has it they’re wanting more and they are aggressive in this area. Apple lost NBC and MS saw an opportunity and took it. Studios and record companies are now more willing to work with MS because they are willing to negotiate. Apple likes to “demand” because they have so far been able to get away with it. This is MS putting some heat towards Apple. Another indication that MS is sticking with Zune is that they are building a platform (what MS does best) for XNA Studio’s and user generated content/games which was recently announced on the Zune.
Take a look here: http://tinyurl.com/63bc2z
How cool is that???
Also, where is the social aspect of music? Aren’t we a Web 2.0 society? Not only do I want my music, but I want to know what other people are listening too. And I want it automatic! With the Zune I can not only find out what my friends are listening too, I can have their favorite albums automatically download and sync to my player and software. And although it doesn’t happen too often, I like to have the ability to send other Zune players music wirelessly and have it plug into my Xbox 360.
http://tinyurl.com/5ggcsn
In the end, going back to functionality and technology, I’m more focused on what I can do with the device rather than having it look “sexy”. I’m not willing to pay a premium specifically for design unless it gives me a functional advantage.
Heh. Just to piggy back on Michael Sainz’s comment… to quote him “I’m more focused on what I can do with the device rather than having it look “sexy”. However, he did get me, his loving wife, an awfully sweet looking red zune cause he knows im more in it cause its so sweet looking ( and functional.)
Ahh the old Apple vs. Microsoft argument. :)
You are selling yourself short if choose the device based on the company. Both of them drop technologies that don’t work out, look at the Newton. Old macs etc eventually you get left behind and lose your investment in some software. We live in an upgrade society now, everything is thrown out every couple of years.
As for the ipod vs. Zune just go with what works for you, they are both very advanced units the new Zunes are on par with the ipod, maybe not as slick as the new iPod touch yet. Zune has games and wireless now, ipod not.
As far as companies go they are both out for a profit, they both have the same employees (meaning there is nothing special about either). Apple got a jump on designing for the consumer rather than business that is all. Microsoft is playing catchup in that area and Apple in the enterprise. Apple has utilized Microsoft activesync for the iPhone in order to sync with exchange. Apple needed to have a huge investment by Microsoft in order to keep going a few years back. They rely on eachother to innovate and keep competition alive and are both in a fight against Linux Google etc.
Shareholders own both of these companies that is all they care about. Apple spends millions on how to make their user base religiously get hooked on them as much as making slick products.
A lot of this is just hype and perception Apple makes some crappy software at times then blames end users for the problems and won’t own up to them, but it still looks good. Apple recently corrected 40 security vulnerabilities and no one makes a big stink about it.
Jason
Dear Mr. Singley,
Were there a Zune kiosk at the Macy’s store at the time that I had my $124 in Macy’s Gift Certificates, then I might have purchased your fancy, exciting, math-inducing product (do you get a cut when they sell one? Just asking). But, alas, here I am, a consumer with no brand loyalty when it comes to mp3 players. A consumer that would have been ripe for the purchase of said Zune. If only had they been in the kiosk. Sigh.
Instead, I have my brand new, *practically free, 4GB, 3rd gen, iPod Nano – shiny and beautiful. Now I can watch Mr. Diety without lugging my laptop with me.
*Mmmmmm…that’s good Math.
@renae….Ms. Dupuis, there SHOULD be a Zune kiosk at Macy’s!
I only buy a few songs here and there from the iTunes store, less than $15/mo by far. My iPod Classic 80GB, the only Apple-branded item I’ve ever owned I believe (likely going to change with the iPhone 3G but that’s another story :-) My primary purpose in buying the iPod was to be able to easily download and listen to podcasts in the car. Music is secondary. iTunes has a great podcast subscription interface, it syncs well, and my FM transmitter in my car also charges my iPod through the dock port.
So, the iPod made the most sense to me. I’ve never used a Zune before. I’ve only used the iPhone for a few minutes, but the new features are drawing me like a bee to honey (ActiveSync being the main one), even though I couldn’t care less about the first one.
I’m not sure if I’ll keep my iPod Classic, esp. if I get a 16GB iPhone. I might; I have over 20GB of podcasts on my iPod right now. But I could whittle that down I think.
We talked about this at dinner last night… I am in too deep with ITunes and can’t get out. Apple just announced today that they reached the 5,000,000,000 mark when it comes to song downloads and 50,000 movies either rented or purchased on a daily basis.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/ipod/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208700675&subSection=All+Stories
I own an Ipod Touch, my wife has the 30 GB Video IPod and my 15 month old son even has an 8GB IPod Nano. I alos have the Apple TV so overall on a month basis, I drop about $100 on movies, music and TV Shows. I travel a great deal so being able to watch movies and TV shows on my Ipod is so easy. They have made it way to easy to drop some serious coin.
My iPods were free. And I have never downloaded any songs ever. I listen to music constantly. I can’t live without music. But I already have the CD’s for my favorite music, or I can find someone who does. I have about $40 in iTunes gift cards, but I’ve never used them. If I was a big music purchaser, Zune would make way more sense, but I’m not. I might be, though, if Apple decided to make unlimited downloads $15 a month. I would get all the music I want in one month, and then cancel!
Matt, Your just suffering still from that glass of water :). Really though you guys are music addicts and a Zune makes total sense. I just don’t listen to that much music and I love my itouch.
Good reposting!
Wonder where the math goes when you look past a single year?
And not just taking your math and multiplying by ten. I’ve got an iPod that is ancient, and much newer ones. They all have the same music, and if I decided now, to stop buying music, they’d all still have music that I could play.
I think your math also doesn’t tell a true story.
Sure if someone buys crazy amounts or even non crazy amounts of music, they pay a lot, but when they stop buying music, all the music they’ve bought up to that point it there’s to keep paying.
Math and statistics are funny in that they can tell any store any way, it just depends on the POV of the story teller.
interesting post and too each their own, but I’m not bad at math or stubborn, and prefer my devices to not be poop brown, LOL
Love the Zune, anticipating the Zune HD, but very disappointed that the Zune Marketplace/subscription service is STILL not available in Canada, and can’t find any info on an ETA. So for Canadians, the Zune isn’t as attractive as the iPod when you want to buy new content.
@ John W Actually…
You can keep 10 songs per month, DRM free. That comes pretty close to paying for the $15/month fee when comparing to the iTunes rates of $1.29/song. :) Thanks for the comment John, to each his own!
Also, many if not most songs are still .99
I’m not sure how they pick and choose, almost all songs are DRM free now that I see/buy, but some are .99 some are 1.29
I like to support new and upcoming artists so I download my music from jamendo.com. All legal music. All 100% free.
It doesn’t matter what I used to listen to it. That’s good math right there. I guess Apple and Microsoft both lose.
I guess for me the over-arching issue is convenience. I own an iPhone… I have my apps, phone, and music all in one spot. Granted, it’s only 30GB and nowhere near big enough for all my music, but I”m OK with that. I can’t listen to everything anyway… I just carry the 20GB or so I am into at the time.
Neither am I a major downloader… 3 albums one month, nothing for 2 months, etc.
It really depends on what you want and need. Me? I’m a minimalist by nature, and like to have my devices do more than one thing to keep down clutter. :)
Different situation in Europe. We don’t have Zunes and can’t say we feel like we’re missing out that much.
We do have Spotify though.
I pay $16 a month (or thereabouts) for Spotify – works the same. Downloads stuff to my iPhone and laptop. It’s great and I would never want to stop paying… Every now and again I buy an album too – something rare, or that I want to share more easily.
Apple’s allowed the iPhone app here in the UK and – given its strong negotiating position with rights hldrrs- I would imagine will offer a similar service at some point…